this is all about exporting. >> go to nebraska and talk to the folks on the ground. >> this is very personal for us. >> i was wrong. >> if i can change, everybody can change! >> i don't think america needs to take this risk. >> american families and american farmers will bear all the risk. >> it is literally in our backyard. >> oil companies will get all the reward. >> our customers continue to say they need this pipeline. >> if there's a crack, a leak, and it's going to be in that water. >> it will leak. >> it could be significant climate impact from the pipeline. >> people are coming around to the reality that this doesn't make a lot of sense. >> good to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. well, i guess i'm america's new flip-flopper. here's how i viewed it. in case you haven't heard, i'm against the pipeline. well reasoned i believe and very profound. ask yourself the question, pick an issue that you, i don't know,

are affable about, kind of in favor of something. is there any information that could come to you that would make you change your mind on a subject that might be rather a hot topic? do you want to have the same knowledge base tomorrow as you have today? and that was the question that i asked myself. do i know everything that i have to know about this project? and clearly the answer was no, because there were such divided loyalties and such difference of opinions from expert, i might add. so i've made the move. now last night i made the announcement. i didn't think it was a big announcement. it's just what i believe. i'm a radio guy. tonight i'm recruiting. if you are for this pipeline i would like you to join me, because i thinkbad for america. on the pipeline, i've made the turn, you can make the turn. we're americans. we have freedom. right? i to do not think that president

obama should approve this project because there's just too much at risk. i think the risk, the risk more than outweighs the reward to the united states of america and the globe. now originally i thought the keystone xl pipeline was a pretty good idea. okay? kind of conventional wisdom, it's a pipeline, we got tons of pipelines around. one of my main arguments in position statements was, well, transporting this oil by rail, well, by rail was more dangerous than a pipeline. both groups i think need to realize that the alternative of shipping oil on railways or in trucks is extremely unsafe. on december 30th there was a very large train derailment near castleton, north dakota, about 20 miles outside of fargo. proponents say that it's a safer way to transport oil. this does not mean the country

is going to be consuming more oil. based on safety, i think the president should give this project the stamp of approval. i made the return. i reversed. i do not think the president should give this the stamp of approval. and i'll tell you why. on rail and any kind of transportation we can take safety measures. we can reduce, we can regulate, we can change the way we're doing it, we can invest in infrastructure, but a pipeline located over the aquifer, no. in the following weeks i had a number of guests on this program who were opposed to the pipeline. they knew a lot more about it than i did. i kept reading and i kept talking to folks. and there were some heated moments, some ridicule involved, but that's okay. that kind of goes with the territory in the fishbowl. i certainly got both sides of the story on the keystone xl pipeline on this program and on my radio show. that was the mission. i didn't think i was going to change, but i wanted to know

more. and i want you to know more. at that stage, i still wasn't completely sold. i wanted to get people on the ground. you got to go to the story. i mean, i really believe that. i've always believed that. that street tape is so important. that what's in the gut of the people. people who were on the ground have got to know more about this. i wanted to get on the ground in nebraska and talk to the land owners who would be directly affected by the pipeline. well, the weekend of february 22nd i arrived in nebraska. i heard the concerns, and i saw the risk of where the pipeline would run. no one wanted to sleep a couple hundred feet away from a pipeline pumping 800,000 barrels a day of toxic sludge. if barack obama were standing here right now, shannon, what would you say to him? >> personally i would ask him if he would willingly sleep 275

feet away from a 36-inch pipe of sludge and poison day after day after day after day. if that's something that he really would feel comfortable doing. personally, i don't. >> would anybody feel comfortable doing that? maybe a few americans. one of the biggest concerns is this, the ogalla aquifer, one of the largest in the world. it's natural treasure to this country, the second largest body of water in north america next to the great lakes. this aquifer provides water to farms in eight states through farm belt, the breadbasket of america, provides water to roughly a quarter of our nation's crop land. it also supplies many local drinking wells. you want to drink some of that stuff? it's great water. that's because it's unspoiled.

this water source has turned the dry plains of america from a desert to the breadbasket of the country. in some places the water table, as i said last night, it's knocked down thousands of feet, in some places the water table is so high from the aquifer it's exposed at the surface. >> right here, this is just an example of how high our water table is. this is ground water here. that stays that way year round. and there's numerous places out through our pasture land here where we have standing water from the ground. when you're talking about burying a 36-inch pipeline out here, you know, it's going to be submerged right into that water supply. >> so what is this aquifer, this aquifer thing? it is a great filtration system that just gives us so many nutrients and it cleanses the

water that comes from the sky. and this is one of the reasons why we have the most productive farm land in america here. make no mistake, this water source is critical to life on the great plains, to the people in the heartland. and they are very worried about the aquifer being contaminated from an oil disaster. >> okay. the pipeline comes in and up on the northwest edge of my property. we're in a very fragile soil. we have sand and we're right over the ogallala aquifer. you don't have to go down very far until you start hitting that water. there's a vast amount of water right there, and in this sand and gravel mixture, if there's a crack, a leak, anything like that, it's going to get into that porous material and it's going to be in that water very rapidly. as a matter of fact, i really believe in most cases, in like

terry's soil or my soil, we're going to not see any evidence of that leak for a while above ground. >> so contamination could be permeating throughout the whole system before people could realize exactly what's going on. >> exactly. and somebody's going to be dead or some livestock's going to be dead and they're going to wonder what the heck happened here. and it's going to be bad water from all the chemicals and so forth in the water. >> why in the world would we put ourselves in that position? if the aquifer is contaminated the fallout would be stating, not just to local nebraskans but it would threaten agriculture at levels we have never seep at this part of the country which is vital to our strength as a nation. this is totally unnecessary. it is an unnecessary risk to our natural resources. there are two sides to every story. but there are absolutes. and i tweeted out today this is

really what i believe, in all of the research, all of the reading, all of the interviews. bottom line. "no expert either side can remove distance of absolute danger to the clean water supply in relate to the pipeline." that's an absolute. you can hang your hat on that till the cows come home. i say it's not worth the risk. president obama, yes, i do believe -- i'm not trying to sound arrogant or grandiose -- i do believe that if he went to nebraska and talked to these folks and saw this water and saw where this pipeline is going to go, i think it would influence him. listen to the concerns of the people, america. listen to the concerns about the water supply. listen to the concerns about the risks involved with this pipeline. i'm selling hard tonight because i believe it. we need as a country to make this turn. president obama, he is the

perfect president at the perfect point in history to make the call and reject this pipeline, make a symbolic statement to the world that americans do have influence when it comes to climate change. history is on his side. he campaigned on it. he talked about climate change in the state of the union address. he has all the information needed to make the call to reject this and turn the tide of history. this is when america is going to make the move. big oil's not going to get everything it wants just because they put several billion dollars into something they think the american people will buy. there's no downside to say nothing to this. it will not make us less secure. lit not affect our energy independence. it will affect the environment. but most of all the risk. the risk for the president, well, he's not running again, is he? the democrats will be able to go

out and say we stand for the environment. our president proved it. and we proved to who? the kids. the next generation. well, here they are. 4th of july at aunt wendy's house. that's 8 of 11. when they come to the lake, they eat everything. that's why we have three refrigerators. what are we going to tell them? you ever think about what kind of world are we going to leave them? what kind of message are we going to send? now, we're teaching the kids that america is a wonderful country. it's 4th of july. they're jumping in the water. they're going to go hang out on the raft. they're going to twaef american flag. and i can tell you they'll eat

all the food. what are we telling them? oil is going to be the focal point of your energy source many the future. we say yes to pipelines, we give big tax breaks to big oil, whatever they want, or do we want their generation to be different from ours? that's why president obama, you hold all the cards. you can be the hope and the change that the parents of these kids voted for. say no. i'm recruiting tonight. and when there's a demonstration in washington, i'm going to be in the crowd with a tremendous amount of pride. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question. should president obama go to nebraska? text a for yes, b for no to 67622. you can go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com. we'll have results later in the show. for more i want to bring in

someone from boldnebraska.org. thanks for joining us tonight. >> thanks, ed. if i wasn't hooked up to things i would be standing up and cheering and giving you a thumbs up. awesome. awesome intro. >> well, i appreciate that. but it certainly isn't about me or my position. it's about the information, the risk, the future of the country. how big a threat is the xl pipeline to the aquifer? >> it's a huge threat. even in the state department report they actually never studied a worst-case scenario, but the spill size they did study, they said a localized spill could be up to a half-mile and a chemical plume could travel up to 250 miles. you're talking about devastation not only directly for those farmers or ranchers that live near ter pipeline with spill but people who live downstream as well. >> transcanada has run a television commercial in nebraska downplaying the risk to the aquifer. i want to play a clip of this and get your reaction. here it is. >> i've spent my career drilling

holes to and through the ogallala formation. i've probably seen as much of the ogallala of anybody. there's a misconception that if the aquifer is contaminated entire water supply of nebraska is going to be endangered, and that's absolutely false. if people recognize the science of the situation, i think that should allay a lot of the fears. >> jane, your response to that. >> you know, before the doctor started to do ads for transcanada he went in front of our state senate and told them he actually doesn't know what a spill could do because he didn't know what chemicals were mixed with tar sanlds. we still don't know because transcanada refuses to tell us the amount of benzene and other chemicals that are in the tar sands that would be traveling through our water. nobody has said that one spill would contaminate the entire aquifer, but one spill will devastate that family's future

forever. we know that a spill will be in that water for decades. we think it's impossible to clean up. nobody's given us a plan to clean up a tar sands spill. >> no one has come forward and said not a problem if there's a major spill we'll be able to stave aquifer. no one has done that. on tuesday, transcanada's ceo said that this is the next pipeline that's going to be built. your reaction to that. >> he's been saying that the last five years. every six months he comes on and says this is going to be built, we'll hear an answer in the next 30 days and he's always wrong. not only tribe, landowner, farmers, rancher, citizens from the entire country will be stand ong the line of nebraska and we will not let this pipeline in our state. we have the will and determination. we are proud people. and we're not going to let this pipeline risk our futures. >> jane, i stand with you on this. i appreciate your time tonight. thanks so much. i want to bring in the

congresswoman from illinois. congresswoman, can congress influence the president to say no to this project? >> well, i'm glass you asked me that because tomorrow is the last day for comments about this pipeline, public comments. so, yes, congress can weigh in. i certainly have weighed in. but the public has until tomorrow. so, ed, all those people that you're convincing to take their heads out of those tar sands can sit down and write a letter and tell the administration that they don't want to see that pipeli pipeline. i would hope that people in mayflow mayflower, arkansas, for example, almost a year since the pipeline spill in their community and there has been hundreds of them around the country, will also take the time to write and say that, no, this is not a good idea. >> you have a sense of where the president's going to come down on this?

>> i think we still have time to influence the president. in the senate today, senator whitehouse and senator boxer just wrote a letter asking for a health study, because now there seems to be evidence showing that downwind from where these -- the tar sands are that extract the oil that there's mercury and carcinogens, cancer-causing agents in the air. and actually a higher rate of cancer. so that's another problem. >> our stability, does our energy stability -- is not going to be determined by this pipeline. >> absolutely not. >> and it would be a generational statement to say no. would it not? >> well, look, absolutely no because we have no assurance at all whether or not any of that oil that would be refined in the southern part of the united states, whether that would stay in the united states or go right out into exports. when we ask the head of transcanada could you guarantee

that that oil will stay in the united states, he said no he couldn't. he wouldn't. >> this is going to be a fight. i expect the democrats who care about the environment to stand up and say no to this and say tell the president to say no. i think it's going to take a real statement from elected officials in the body to let the president know exactly where they stand on this, not just a few in the house and a few over on the senate side. i think there really has to be a push if we're serious, if we're serious about the future and the next generation. congresswoman jan schakowsy, thanks for joining us tonight. >> thank you. some of you may remember this. the conservative push to privatize education is introducing a new form of segregation. the rapid response panel joins me e to discuss why investing in public schools is only way to ensure equal opportunities for all children. first, house democrats have had enough of darrell issa's

abuse of power. congressman elijah cummings joins me. retirement account. before he opened his first hot chocolate stand calling winter an "underserved season". and before he quit his friend's leaf-raking business for "not offering a 401k." larry knew the importance of preparing for retirement. that's why when the time came he counted on merrill edge to streamline his investing and help him plan for the road ahead. that's the power of streamlined connections. that's merrill edge and bank of america. has begun. it's time to chart an entirely new course. with the lexus ct hybrid, featuring an epa-estimated 42 mpg combined. the further you go, the more interesting it gets. take command of the moment, then take command of the road. during the lexus command performance sales event. get great offers on your favorite lexus models, now through march 31st. this is the pursuit of perfection.

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if they're not a cfp pro, you just don't know. find a certified financial planner professional who's thoroughly vetted at letsmakeaplan.org. cfp -- work with the highest standard. here's where you can find us. hot topic about the pipeline. social media nation has decided and we are reporting. here are today's top trernds voted on by you. >> honk ]. >> get in, loser. >> number three loser. pack mentality. >> conservative political action conference. >> america is a clown car. >> the conservative clown car unloads at cpac. >> when you look at the list of speefshgs -- >> if you're at cpac, you

believe in the future of america. >> sometimes it's hard to tell who's here to start a career and who's here to serve a cause. >> it's kind of hard to figure out how they're defining conservative. >> good luck in 2020. >> number two trender, benghazi blitz. >> this was a symptom of a greater problem. >> we have a weak and indecisive president that invites aggression. it started with benghazi. >> not this again. >> you say the word benghazi it is red meat for the republican base. you know that. >> lindsey graham stands by his critique of the president's response to putin. >> how on sert what's happening in the ukraine a result of what happened in benghazi? >> that doesn't make sense. >> when he tells people there will be consequences and there are none, it sets in motion exactly what you see. >> and today's top trender, end game. >> i respectfully exercise my fifth amendment. >> i can see no point in going further. i have exhausted any possibility

of her speaking at this point. i'm glad that's over, aren't you? >> yes. >> house democrats have had it with the oversight committee chairman's ice capades. >> just when you think you've seen it all. chairman issa, whose behavior has been outrageous but even for him this crossed the line. >> chairman issa cut off my microphone because he did not like what i had to say or what he thought i might say. the chairman cannot run a committee like this. >> chairman issa's abusive behavior on march 5th is part of a continuing partttern. >> close it down. >> elijah cummings, ranking member of the house oversight committee. great to have you with us tonight. there was some activity in the congress today, but i want your take on this from your knowledge base of the rules. did chairman issa violate house rules? >> he clearly violated house rules, ed. we have what's called a

five-minute rule. that means each member has five minutes to speak. in this instance, this was a continuation of a hearing. chairman issa actually spent about 15 minute, and then when i asked for five minutes to basically address an issue that would have helped us get more information he cut me off. he said it was based on what he thought i was going to say. so he put us in a position, ed, where he prevented us or tried to prevent us from even uttering one syllable in a hearing. >> well, this is the fear i think from a taxpayer and from a democracy standpoint. what if every committee in washington was run like this by the majority? the house republicans tabled a resolution the democrats put out today. congresswoman marsha fudge, the congressional black caucus, she brought it to the floor today to condemn congressman issa's

actions. do you think issa got away with this? >> i do. i think it's very unfortunate that anybody could get away with this kind of activity. in order for us to function, ed, we've got to have some type of a way we can get along. there has to be rules and there are rules. those rules must be adhered to. one of the main rules is you want to make sure that the minority has a chance to assert its views. and in this instance, chairman issa makes a decision, goes against the rules and basically shuts off the mike. that is not the first time, ed, he has done that. he did it to one of my colleagues, congressman tierney a few weeks ago. just shut it down. and i ree minded him that each one of us represent over 700,000 people, and that is not american. it's not way we do it in america.

>> so if he violated the rules and the speaker of the house john boehner said he had no problem with it basically, where does that leave us? >> that leaves us in a very unfortunate situation because i think basically what boehner is saying is there's nothing wrong with that. so therefore -- i mean, i guess anything goes. but i can tell you, i'm not going to sit around and be some silent person on a committee. my constituents and the constituents of my colleagues sent us here to uplift their lives. and nobody's going to shut me down. nobody. >> the congressional black caucus wrote a letter to speaker boehner today asking for issa to be removed as committee chairman. is this a realistic option? >> i think probably not, particularly based on what speaker boehner has already said. but, ed, you have to keep in mind, you've been making this point very clearly. ed, for the last nine months the republicans have been

investigating the irs. we've had 38 irs witnesses come before us, and ed, to this day, not one scintilla of evidence has been put out there to show that either the white house is involved in this deads ig nating of certain groups under c-4, and there's been no evidence of political involvement. that's what they're trying to get to, where issa is trying to go. >> i do have to ask you, what is your take on lerner, who was the person in question that was being asked the question? she took the fifth. what's your reaction? >> well, first of all, she legitimately took the fifth. but keep in mind lerner, we just found out at the hearing yesterday, that lerner had asked for a one-week postponement and it sounded like she was willing to come in and testify. but i don't know what she'll do now because issa, chairman issa refused to give her a one-week postponement to come in and testify. i'm wondering what's being hidden. why do they want to hear from

her. >> congressman elijah cummings, as a friend and as a taxpaying american, i'm sorry you had to put up with this. i would expect more from our government, but then again there's darrell issa in the middle of it all. thanks for your time. i appreciate it. >> thank you, ed. coming up, the for-profit education industry and the conservative effort to go for the public school system in america. later, bernie sanders joins me to discuss why he thinks he might be the right fit for 2016. next i'm taking your questions. now you can create your own perfect plate of pasta

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"ask ed." i don't think you roll out of bed and say i'm changing my mind. was there any tipping point just now, a collection of information but the aquifer security certainly had a lot to do with it. and of course pillow talk goes a long way too. you are in next question from cheryl. i can't tell if your accent is southern or northern. can you confirm, please? mow do you want me to sound? i grew up down there in norfolk, virginia, although that's not real southern. it just has a twang of drawl to it. i was educated in the midwest. so between virginia and north dakota and minnesota you got ed. stick around. rapid response panel coming up. >> here's your "cnbc market wrap." stocks rise on promising news about the labor market. the dow gained 61, the s&p up 3 and the nasdaq falls 5.

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welcome back to "the ed show." progressives are up an effort to destroy public education in this country. this is an issue that will affect every family in the united states. new york city's mayor bill de blasio is working to show -- to slow the growth of charter schools and improve public schools.

his effort is being met with criticism and slew of conservatives who love the idea of diverting tax-payer money from public schools to charter schools. new york governor andrew kcuomo rallied in opposition to the de blasio effort on tuesday. >> we are here today to tell you that we stand with you, you are not alone! we will save charter schools! >> e ma moscowitz, the ceo of a network is angry mayor de blasio is refusing to grant thee of her schools pace spas in city school buildings. >> parents are very determined and it's actually just morally wrong. he's trying to close the higher performing middle school in math in the entire state of new york in fifth grade. i don't think anyone can get away with that. it's 194 kids who have been with us since kindergarten. they have a right to a great free public education. >> what's at issue here, moscowitz is expected to be

given free space to run her charter schools and bring in a huge paycheck for herself. charter school administrators may cry poverty over the threat that de blasio will charge them rent for their spaces, but the people who run charter schools rake in the big bucks. at least 16 charter school ceos including eva moscowitz earned more money than the new york city schools chancellor dennis wolcott many the 2011-2012 school year. see, conservatives love charter schools because it's privatization. many liberals think charter schools are a new form of modern-day segregation. where they're picking and choosing kids out of neighborhoods. the lack of investment in public education is the major concern when it comes to e equal opportunity for children. joining me tonight for our rapid response panel, diane ravech, research of education at new york university and dr. eric dyson, professor at georgetown

university. michael, is this a form of segregation, modern-day segregation? not every kid gets to go to a charter school. >> it's worse than that. absolutely. the reality is not only is it a form of segregation but we're cherry-picking the schools that will survive. this is like sophie's choice in the ghetto. you make a choice between saving your children by going to public school so that all of the resources there can be democratized or in the face of shrinking resources and the inability of this government to foster critical resources and direct them toward public education, you want to bail your kid out of a failing school and put that kid in a charter school. but the reality is unless we begin to redirect those resources to democratize education and to make equal the funding and resources for all of these schools, we're having a two-tiered system where de facto segregation is organized around the dollars of the public and we are asked to co-sign that as opposed to in your case and i

think in miss ravech's case to resist that and as the professor would say to engage in a more democratized form of education for all. >> diane ravech, you have the words morally wrong. that's what moscowitz is saying. your response to that. >> well, i think that her charters are suspect because first of all as michael dyson said they do not take in every child who applies. they exclude kids with severe disabilities. they exclude kids who don't speak english. they cherry-pick. they have a very high attrition rate. the number of kids who come in shrink because they don't replace the kids who leave. they choose the schools and the children, and where we're heading with schools like eva moscowitz is a dual-school system, one for the kids chose bin the charters and another for everybody else. >> she says the parents should be able to get the resources. >> well, the parents aren't getting the resources now. what we need in this country is

what the other high-performing or what the high-performing nations have. what they have is no charters, no vouchers, a great teaching profession, and great public schools. that's what you see in all the world's highest performing countries. >> dr. dyson, it's very clear the schools that don't get the resources end up failing. so is that the key? >> of course. i mean, look, when you have disparities between suburban schools that have $60 million to $100 million new schools, where you have high-speed internet, zoological experimentation, where you have acquire ya and then public schools that are starved where you can't get firsthand textbooks or clean water, youf see the disparity. if you're spending a thousand to 2,000 more per student on suburban schools and inner city schools of course you'll get a different product. >> charter schools are making it worse. >> of course they are. >> charter schools are putting the squeeze on the fundamental

system of education that have brought this country to greatness. >> there's no question about that. imagine if thomas jefferson and benjamin franklin and other founding fathers that people are likely to lift up have been subjected to such an arbitrary distribution of educational resources. of course we're creating a two-tiered system as diane ravitch indicated. and the prop is those students who are poor people, people of color and other people without sufficient means are the ones getting left behind many a time when we need rapid proliferation of technical education as well as humanities and they're being left behind in the process. >> why does governor kcuomo lov charter schools? >> it's very simple, and this has been printed in the newspapers, he's received $800,000 in campaign contributions from hedge fund managers and wall street and they love charter school because they like privatization, they like the market. what they're pushing for is a market-based form of education where the schools -- there's consumer choice. they do not believe in public

education. they don't send their own children to public schools. >> so they think they're entitled to taxpayer buildings. that's what it comes down to. >> right. >> for free. they shouldn't have to pay. >> bear in mind, new york state, 3% of the children in charter schools, governor cuomo is responsible for 100%, not 3%. >> if you listen to the proponents of the charter schools you think almost every kid is in a charter school and de blasio is putting the shaft to them. >> de blasio did not attack charter schools. he was given 49 approvals that had been forwarded to him by mayor bloomberg, who's very pro charter, being a billionaire himself, like all the other billionaires. de blasio approved 39 out of 49 new charters. he gave eva moscowitz three new charters and he denied her three and she's on a warpath taking out full-page ads in "the new york times," going on television, spending millions to say i can't pay rent. >> and professor dyson, she makes a half a million dollars a year herself and acts like a victim because she isn't getting

free rent. what do you make of that? >> the privatization of education is the undermining and undoing of american education for those who are stuck at the bottom and those most vulnerable. if you're extremely bright and you stand out in the crowd, you will get chosen, but many bright people don't get chosen and beyond that, those who don't mature until later will get left behind. this is a radical inequality that needs to be contested. >> diane ravitch and dr. eric michael dyson, thank you very much. coming up, a potential challenger to hillary clinton for the 2016 presidential race. senator bernie sanders joins me next. back down. we only know one direction: up so we're up early. up late. thinking up game-changing ideas, like this: dozens of tax free zones across new york state. move here. expand here. or start a new business here... and pay no taxes for 10 years. with new jobs, new opportunities and a new tax free plan.

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welcome back to "ed show." this is a story for the folks who take a shower after work. don't you think it's about time that the kitchen table issues are really getting some serious discussion in washington? progressives need a politician to take the lead on issues when it comes to income inequality, minimum wage, health care, and making sure corporations and the wealthy pay their fair share. the effort is there, but will it intensify? according to a "new york times" cbs poll, an overwhelming majority of democrats, they want hillary clinton to run in 2016. the number is 83%.

but clinton might not be the choice for progressives looking to buck the status quo, according to a survey released this week. 40% of americans say they don't believe hillary clinton is offering, quote, new ideas. vermont senator bernie sanders isn't sure. senator clinton, former senator clinton will be the one to rock the boat in washington for the sake of the middle class in this country. in an interview with "time" magazine, senator sanders called clinton a very, very intelligent person, no question about it. but if you talk about the need for political revolution in america, it's fair to say that secretary clinton probably will not be one of the more active people. what does that mean? senator sanders is the longest serving independent in congressional history and a proven champion of the people. he is not ruling out a run of his own. sanders told "time" magazine we need candidates who are prepared to present the working families of this country, represent the

working families of this country, who are prepared to stand up to the big money interests, who are prepared to support an aggressive agenda to expand the middle class. and i'm prepared to be that candidate. quite a statement. for more, let's turn to the senator from vermont, independent bernie sanders. senator, good to have you with us tonight. >> good to be with you. >> i don't know how anybody else is taking it, but i'm taking it as an announcement. i'm glad you're seriously thinking about it. but the comment that got me is you said you would be a better president than hillary clinton. i want some clarification here, sir. >> what we're talk about here is ideas. ed, this country today faces more serious problems than at any time since the great depression. middle class is disappearing, more people living in poverty. and the gap between the very, very wealthy and everybody else is growing wider and wider. what we need in america is not politics as usual. we need a political revolution. what does that mean? it means that the tens of millions of people who are

working longer hours for low wages, people who don't have health care, people who can't afford to send their kids to college, to i'm who are seeing their jobs going to china and vietnam, we have got to come together and say that with increased technology, increased productivity, the middle class in this country should be expanding. we should be moving in a more egalitarian direction, not in an oligarchic way. we have a huntsville of millionaires. we have to shake that system up. and that's what the political revolution is about. >> senator, are you concerned that hillary clinton is politics as usual? >> look, i've known hillary clinton for many years. i like hillary. i respect hillary clinton. but these -- and i don't know if she is going to run, and if she does run, i don't know what her agenda is going to be. but what i do know is we need people. and it's certainly not just me, ed. we need people to say there is a war going on against working families. we've got to stand up.

we've got to fight back, or we're not going to have much of a country left. >> you are prepared to be that candidate. how would this work? you're an independent. you caucus with the democrats. how does this work? >> well, that's a good question, and i don't know the answer to that. there are advantages and disadvantages about running independently or running within the democratic structure in contesting the primaries. obviously, there is so much profound disgust with the two-party system that being an independent works well. >> yeah. >> on the other hand, you have to build an entire political infrastructure that is very, very difficult to do. but the bottom line now, the working class, the middle class in this country needs to have a voice standing up for their, prepared to take on big money. >> well, no one can take issue with your voice on those issues there is no question about it. speaking of infrastructure we have seen the big money pacs throwing their support behind hillary clinton. are you worried that she possibly could go unopposed?

is there a chance that no one will step forward because of the infrastructure that the clintons have been able to put together? >> well, ed, that is my fear. i mean, it would be a very sad day if we did not have a vigorous debate on the important issues. and just because some folks have access to huge sums of money should not exclude other candidates raising important issues. so i do think it would be unfortunate, you know, if she was uncontested. this is a democracy. we need different voices out there. we need different ideas being heard. >> senator bernie sanders, thanks for your time tonight on "the ed show." >> thank you. >> and that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. good evening, ed. and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, democrats say darrell issa has to go. this republican lawmaker has

abused his authority, disrespected his colleagues, and made a mockery of the democratic process. and now democrats say enough's enough. when chairman darrell issa ended the hearing without letting a single democrat speak, cutting off their microphones, he wasn't counting on this response from ranking democrat elijah cummings. >> if you will sit down and allow me to ask a question, i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. we have -- you represent 700,000 people. you cannot just have a one-sided investigation. it is absolutely something wrong with that, and it's absolutely unamerican. >> chairman issa